Q: But you said that Coxson didn't do anything more than that 45? You didn't hear anything more so it was no point in staying there. Albert: Coxson... Right now, we didn't feel that he gave us any justice. Clifton: Right. Albert: We didn't get justice, brethren (chuckles). No justice, so there was no desire to continue with this guy. 'Cause this guy... Let me tell you, Peter. That guy, in those days, yunno, as a producer, those men sling them big .38 done, y'know. Clifton: (Chuckles) Albert: And if an artist would come around and act like him war against... Clifton: Rude boy style. Albert:... he would beat up a guy, yunno! Clifton: Yeah (laughs)! Albert: And gun-butt him, y'know what I mean? So it wasn't a nice-nice man when you hear someone talk about Clement Dodd. Dodd was a very hostile guy, yunno. Q: He knocked out Joe Higgs one time when he asked for money. Clifton: Oh, yeah (chuckles)? Albert: So you know what I'm talking about then. You know, those guys are bad-bad. Dodd wasn't popular. And when a man have a .38 in his waist, he was a very powerful man. Clifton: Yep. Albert: (Laughs) Clifton: (Chuckles) Albert: So with knowing that we didn't have any interest, to stick around a guy like that. Q: Pretty much the same story with the Duke, the ex-policeman, walking around with guns in his waist. Clifton: Yeah. Albert: He used to walk with a gun in his holster just like a cowboy, with bullets right around his waist. And he travelled with a shotgun. So every morning when he reached his store and stepped out of that vehicle - he used to drive a Buick, a Buick Skylark... You remember that car?

Duke Reid.

Q: Right. Albert: When he stepped out of that car morning-time, he step out with a gun in his holster with bullets right around his waist, like a cowboy, with a shotgun over his shoulder. I can remember, because that area I grew up in. And his ten fingers have rings. Clifton: (Chuckles) Albert: Ten fingers with gold! That was a man whe punch up, beat up artists big time. Beat them up. Yeah, 'cause those guys were gunmen. Q: What inspired that song by the way, 'Ten years ago I was suffering by the hands of those wicked men...'? Albert: Go ahead, Clifton. Clifton: Aaahhhh... Albert: (Chuckles) Clifton: You know, I think it's the politics. Albert: (Laughs) Clifton: To be frank with you, even though we were young, never been associated with it, but I think that's the influence. Q: It was cut back in 1972, the year of the Jamaican elections which the PNP won, maybe that was one influence of its 'political' nature? You had a story about that too, Albert? Albert: Yeah, yeah. You see, the Jamaica Labour Party that was in power all the years, and this guy came on the scene, Michael Joshua Manley. We felt he was a better leader. We saw a glimpse of hope in Michael Manley. And so we did the song, 'Ten years ago I was suffering under the hands of these wicked men...'. You know, 'now I am free, man and man a go live life now...' (laughs). Q: (Laughs) Clifton: (Chuckles) Albert: (Laughs) 'It was sufferation, gotta have decision, man and man a go live life now...' - it was the politics whe really influence da lyrics deh. Yes, definitely. Q: But nothing became of it, it just died out? Clifton: No, I heard it on the radio quite a few times when it just released, but nothing much came of it.

Ronnie Davis.

Q: OK. So from there, as you said earlier, you had a break for a while until you linked up with Ronnie Davis then. Ronnie used to sing with the Tennors at that time, still, didn't he, or he was solo? Clifton: Yeah, he was solo at that time. Albert: After we take that rest, after that 'pause' at Coxson's, we didn't put aside The Officials, we still - we did a big song within that period between Coxson and Channel One. We did 'Ire Ire', 'Bunch of Babylonians' (aka 'Babylonians') - you remember that song? Clifton: Yeah! Albert: And we also did a song for Lee Perry, when he changed our name from the Officials to The Ark (chuckles). We still did something in-between that period of Coxson and... Clifton: Yeah. Right, I forgot about that. Q: What was the title for the song for Scratch? Albert: Man...? I have no... I cyaan remember, I don't remember it. Clifton: Me neither. Albert: But it was a nice song, y'know. He changed our name because his studio, it was the (Black) Ark. (Chuckles) And so he didn't like the name The Officials, so him say 'lets call it with the name The Ark'. So that felt like we were worthy of his studio name, so he must have felt we had some talent, you understan', fe really name us offa the studio. Yeah. Q: And that song, 'Babylonian' for Dynamic, came out produced by Niney. Albert: (Much laughter between the two) Niney was a guy... Niney was like a middle-man, yunno. Q: So back to the move to Channel One now. You mentioned Ronnie Davis being instrumental in bringing you there originally. What became of the first meeting with Jo Jo? Albert: Well, after we met Jo Jo and Jo Jo listened to us, y'know, we had an audition first and they listen to us, he didn't allow us to finish the song. As we started the song and reached a part of it, he stopped us and said, "Well all right then, come and record". And we went into the studio, laid the riddim track... the same week we went there we laid the riddim track, the same week we went and voiced it. And when we voiced the song, man, the song was a bomb!

Q: What was the...? Albert: (Laughs) You know, 'Jailhouse Set Me Free'. Q: Ah! Albert: Yeah! He release it as 'Jah Will Cut You Down', that's the name he put on it, right? Clifton: Right! That's the title. Albert: But our original name was 'Jailhouse Set Me Free', because that song was born out of a horrific experience that Clifton had. And I don't know if Clifton could share the experience right now... Clifton: No, but I tell you what, Bert! No, my experience was after the song, remember? Albert: Oh, it was after the song?! Q: (Laughs) Clifton: Yeah! Albert: So it was like a prophecy... Clifton: Exactly! (both laughing out loudly) Yes! Albert: It was a prophecy, brethren! Clifton: Mmm. Albert: Tell him what you went through. Clifton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was living at Rose Lane at that time, just a block from Albert, and one evening I was at the gate and some cops came up, put me and another guy to lay down and tried to get us to lay on the asphalt with a gun in our back an' t'ing like that. I refused to lay down so they start to... they tried to beat me up an' t'ing like that. But there was a lot of people, a lot of people was there so they couldn't do much. But anyway, they took us down to the station, locked me up for a night. Then I told him who I was and they sort of didn't believe me but I said all right, call such and such people, they did and then they realised I was telling the truth so the next day they set me free. So they realised seh 'oh man, I was locking up the wrong person'. So that was my experience. But it was just like the song said, believe me.

Q: Why did they change the title to 'Jah Will Cut You Down', I think that's the most common name of the song? Clifton: You think you have any idea of that, Bert? Albert: It was done by the producer, yunno, ca' we didn't even know that this song release until we see it on the record, 'Jah Will Cut You Down'. So that was the producer who did it deliberately. I believe there was this song 'Jailhouse', people decide to call it 'Jailhouse Rock' too, yunno. You remember? Clifton: Right. Albert: Everyone want to call it 'Jailhouse Rock', but then I didn't even know that you did have a whole other hit song name 'Jailhouse Rock'... Clifton: Elvis Presley, yeah. Albert: So I guess that's why they really change the name to 'Jah Will Cut You Down'. 'Cause we used a part that - the lyrics we had in the song was 'Jah Jah will soon cut you down, and the more you'll be around, you a gone a'ready...'. That's why even that song is so hot for that time. Q: Maybe they felt it was more power, or powerful, to use that title instead to make an impact on the people, 'Jah Will C U T You Down'. Clifton: Yeah, maybe so. Q: So this is actually the first release by the group for the Hookims, 'Jah Will Cut You Down', circa 1975? Albert: For Channel One. Clifton: Yeah, for Channel One, yes.

Q: It was a smash. Clifton: Yeah. Well, it was number one. On the local market it was number one. For foreign, I think it did pretty good too. And that's our biggest hit for Channel One. Q: I mean, at this time, you weren't even called The Officials. What brought about the change to 'Earth & Stone' (chuckles)? Was that something Jo Jo had a say about? Clifton: Yeah, he was the one who created that name, yunno, Earth & Stone. He was the one who gave us the name. Albert: I remember when we went to Channel One we were known as The Ark. Clifton: Right, OK. Albert: As for 'The Officials', it was changed now by Lee Perry to The Ark. And so when we did that song we were named The Ark, and the night after we rehearsed that song and we recorded that song, Jo Jo was taking us home. And he had a girlfriend in his car, and so he was contemplating a name. And she said, "Why not call them Earth & Fire?" So that night while we were driving in the car, we essentially said 'Yeah! Earth & Fire'. So we eventually come to an agreement that Earth & Fire would be a good name, and we really settled for Earth & Fire. But then now, when the song was released, we see that they change it to Earth & Stone, unknown to us. He said he was talking to some people and they said "Why not seh Earth & Stone?" Clifton: Right (chuckles). Albert: And he said that that sounded better and he changed it to Earth & Stone. Well, when we saw it we accepted it, 'cause it was a good name, Earth & Stone. So that's how the name came about, at Channel One. Q: It's a memorable name. Albert: Yeah. Q: And you used some of the best, if not t h e best, studio musicians on the island at the time, the Revolutionaries. Who was in the band at this time, circa '75?

Sly Dunbar.

Gladdy Anderson.

Ansel Collins.

Albert: Well, I can tell you this. Sly Dunbar was the drummer at the time. This guy... whe him name...? God, he was the... Clifton: Dougie (Bryan)? Albert: Dougie was the bass player... Q: No, probably guitar. Clifton: Was the guitarist. Albert: Dougie was the guitarist. Q: Maybe Ranchie (McLean)? Albert: Ranchie was the bass guitar player, man. Ranchie was bass player. This guy now...? Clifton: Ansel Collins? Albert: Ansel Collins was the keyboards, man, and... Who again...? Clifton: Sticky (Thompson) was the percussionist. Albert: Ansel Collins, Sly Dunbar, percussionist was my guy deh, man... whe used to sing, him and Alton Ellis when he started early as a group deh... Whe dem name again, man...? Clifton: Flames (Winston Jarrett)? Albert: No, I don't remember him name, man. But it was a very good guy, the guy who used to play the percussion. Q: Skully? Albert: I can remember those four guys though. I can remember the keyboard man, Ansel Collins. I remember... You know, Gladdy (Anderson) is the guy, Gladdy was with them too? Yea, Gladdy was playing piano, Ansel Collins on the keyboard, Ranchie on the bass, Sly Dunbar on the drum, Dougie playing guitar. Yea, those were the guys, and the guy playing percussion. Robbie (Shakespeare) didn't hook up as yet. In those times Sly and Robbie didn't link up as yet. It wasn't long after that before Sly and Robbie linked up.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)