Q: Sly used to play at a club on Red Hills Road called Tit For Tat. Albert: Yeah, they used to have a band, 'cause all those guys played together in a band. At that time Ranchie was the lead guitarist in that band. When I went to Channel One I saw him playing bass. 'Cause when I saw Ranchie he was a very crucial lead guitar player, y'know. Q: Would you even stretch it to call Ranchie the band leader at the studio at this time? Albert: Well, all those guys were good musicians, and I don't know, to be truthful, who I could say would be the leader. Because they were all - they all played the major part. All those guys were professional guys in their own right. Q: Maxfield Avenue where the studio was located, later on it was noted as being one of the heaviest areas in Kingston for heavy violence, and it was pretty heavy to get into that area even then? I believe that's where the violence escalated. Albert: All those areas was crucial areas, man (chuckles). Violence was regular. But as young men we didn't really have that fear, no. Clifton: It didn't bother us at all. Albert: No. (Chuckles) It's music and a lot of people know us as singers, so we never really fear. Every man know us as singers, so we know seh well, we weren't involved in any crime an' violence. We're just singers, man, so we no really worry 'bout the violence. But we were living like - I and Clifton were living in Rose Lane, and Rose Lane was more like a borderline between, like, anything from up to where Clifton was living was seen as, y'know, from a certain party. And from below my area go down would be seen as the other political party. But the point is that, we had never been involved with any political thing whereby anybody could say 'Earth & Stone is this' or 'Earth & Stone is that'. We were just men who would be seen as - just music! So even as that, we didn't allow the division and the political borders to really - 'cause we used to rehearse all up in a the Concrete Jungle too, yunno, it's a dominant JLP (Jamaica Labour Party) area. We used to enter there an' rehearse, man, 'cause we had love for the music. We used to go all Tivoli Gardens an' listen music, man, dance an' everyt'ing. So we didn't really have a fear of the political divide. Q: When you worked at Channel One, was there talk immediately after 'Jailhouse'/'Jah Will Cut You Down' hit the charts that they wanted to do an album, or did that come up much later, like some years after that they wanted to compile an album? Clifton: I think I heard after another song or two the idea of doing the album, that it came up. Yeah, I think that's what it was, Bert, right? Albert: Yeah, about that time, maybe that or the next year or so. I remember that time. Q: But that first and only album for Channel One came out in '79 and you began to record in like '75, so it took some time before the album was 'realised' so to speak. Clifton: Mmm. Albert: Looking back, it was like about... yeah, like maybe about two years after we did 'Jailhouse Set Me Free' that they decide to come out with a LP release after that. And at that period they released this song 'Run Home', remember? He release 'Run Home' 45 again, and after 'Run Home' then we did 'Three Wise Men' on 45 again. And it was from there now we were told about this guy, Jo Jo said that this guy want an album of Earth & Stone. We came to some agreement and we started to work on the album. All of those songs I mentioned was released on 45. Even though, Peter, we still feel that Jo Jo didn't give us justice. We feel that we were going to prove that we were held back. Why? I don't know, but we were proven that we didn't get justice from Jo Jo, Channel One's owner. It was always that he was having us on hold. I don't know why. And I believe we had gotten... All of the days with the Diamonds were having a whole heap a songs he released. Jo Jo sit on our songs, only God knows why, man.

Mighty Diamonds.

Q: Maybe because he got a major deal for the (Mighty) Diamonds on Virgin in England for the 'Right Time' album, to focus on them at the time. But who can say? Clifton: Yes. Albert: Maybe at the time Jo Jo had a contrac' with Virgin Record with the Diamonds, so more emphasis was placed on them. But I'm looking at it from a point of view where Diamonds were Diamonds, Earth & Stone was Earth & Stone. Clifton: Right, right. Albert: So there should be nutten whe Earth & Stone is holding down the Diamonds, 'cause is two different groups. You know, we were different from Diamonds - Diamonds had their own style, we had our own style. Our lyrics were different from Diamonds lyrics. We were a group that believe that we should stick to the original stuff and we created that. Most of our songs are original stuff. You understan', original, because we believe in being creative, not just come on the bandwagon half-born an' sing a guy's song. Even though we had done a few songs in the later part, like 'Satta Massa Gana', 'Ain't That Loving You' and 'Black Magic Woman', those three songs are the songs we can think about that we did. Oh, we did two songs with Mrs Pottinger, right? Clifton: Right, right. Albert: It was a rendition again. But apart from that, Earth & Stone was a group that believed in being original. We're creative, we don't believe in jumping on a guy's song and sing.

Q: If I could just drop a few song titles from the Earth & Stone catalogue, would you both tell me what you can remember - the motivation, the inspiration, the players, the circumstances which brought about those songs, you just reminisce whatever you can... Like one classic, apart from 'Jailhouse Set Me Free', I believe most people think of Earth & Stone if a song like 'In Time To Come' are mentioned. Clifton: Yeah, well, I could answer that, 'cause I was the one who really came up with that idea. I tell you what. That inspiration came from... All right, there was a time when they had this 'Peace' thing, they had 'Peace Dance' all over the place. Q: The 'Peace Treaty' in the late 1970's. Clifton: Yeah, so Albert and I were supposed to follow another friend to this Peace Dance in Tivoli Gardens. Well, I decided I wasn't going for some reason. And when they came and said OK, if I'm ready, I said "Listen, I don't think I'm going, yunno". By this time I was getting the vibes, the idea of how it used to be so much war between the two fractions, and now they are together. You know? So I went and got the guitar - he had a guitar, so I went and got it from him, and started by trying to put some lyrics to this idea, this 'war and peace' thing. So, by myself I came up with the idea, 'All through the years was just blood, sweat and tears...'. And that's where it came from. So the whole idea was the 'war and peace' thing. Maybe I never tell Bertie that, but that's what it was. Albert: Right. Clifton: So, from there again, I think it's from the political thing again.

Q: What about a song like 'Run Home'? Clifton: Oh! (both laughing out loud) Albert: Now we're coming to the politics, yunno. Clifton: Same thing! Yes. Q: (Chuckles) Albert: Pure gunshot, yunno. We lived in an area y'know, Peter, where certain time it's like - I don't know what Iraq sound like now (chuckles), but I guess we had a mini-Iraq. Yes, gunshot every day, gunshot every week, it come outta the environment deh. Q: Almost close to a 'civil war', not quite, but... Albert: I wouldn't even call it 'civil war', it was just political fractions, yunno. Guys get guns from politicians, and politicians get guys to fight each other in order to protect their terms and their vote will be secured. They use it as a way of intimidating. In their area where it's their stronghold, people would be free to go out an' vote. But then like other areas now, they keep that area intimidated by a lot of gunshot an' blah blah blah. And people get scared, so that make things easier for the politician to win the election. That is what these guys came up with. And a lot of innocent people that we know die. This was a daily thing, people die daily. And living in the environment and seeing what is happening, so the song came up, 'You better run home for your life...'. We never call no name, we never say we went for the gun (laughs). You see, you gotta be careful, yunno, you cyaan call names or else you set up yourself if you went for the gun - and it na go nice.

Q: 'Three Wise Men'. Albert: Oh, that lyric again is a long time Clifton lyrics (chuckles). We sing it together, Clifton as a lead... Clifton: (Laughs) Yeah. Well, the idea came from the bible really. The 'three wise men travelling, carrying...'- Albert: The birth of Jesus. Clifton: Right, so that came of that idea. Q: Bible inspired lyrics, but what was the connection between the three wise men into modern times, so to speak? Clifton: Well, I just used the idea in a more modern time. If I can remember the lyrics, 'Three wise men travelling far from the east, if you should see them don't think they are thieves, they're Abbah's very best friend...'. OK, I guess what happened is that I got the idea from the bible but then just turn it around into nowadays, into modern times. I mean, back in those days you could get beat up by a guy because you're living in east, so if you travel from the east to the west and a guy knows that you're from the east - and from certain parts of the east - then you could get beat up, you could be killed. You know what I mean? So the whole thing together I think brought out that song. So the main idea is really from the three wise men from the bible, really. Q: And 'False Ruler'. Clifton: Oh well, that was Albert's idea. Albert: 'False Ruler' again coming back outta the same political vibes. You know, because when we look and see what was happening, we were very poor, man. We know what hunger was like. And when we look and see how the political system worked, that's how that song just come alive, 'False rulers of the world, dem haffe get a beating...'. You know, 'Babylon go on an' say dem a de ruler, dem slave us so hard without any dunza...' - when we say 'dunza' we mean money, right. 'While I and I man on ya dying for hunger, Babylonian siddung 'pon a big bag a dunza...'. So again, all a dem songs we did came out of experience, the environment we lived in and what we saw. So we were like preachers in the environment. Yeah, we were just like ministering to the people around us, man, opening their eyes to the present, listening to what we were experiencing. Q: 'Don't Let Them Fool You'. Clifton: OK, it was 'Don't Let Them Bribe You' really, that was the lyric, right? Albert: Right, 'Don't Let Them Bribe You'. Clifton: I think the title they have it is 'Don't Let Them Fool You' though. Albert: Right yeah, but that wasn't the original title we came with, is 'Don't Let Them Bribe You'. We come back to the environment, because many at the time was hit upon by politicians. They get guys to shoot and kill one another to get a lickle money. So again, it's the same political system in all of these lyrics, it came out of 'Don't Let Them Bribe You', y'know, 'to take another one's life'. We were like watchmen, you understan' (chuckles)? At the time we didn't know it, but now we stop and looking back, we realise seh we were like watchmen. And our job was sending out a warning that many young men would be victims. It's in these lyrics, 'cause if they would take heed to these lyrics, many would be alive today. So because they failed to heed to these lyrics they were used by politicians and little did they know, they were just gunned down. Clifton: Yeah, that's right.

Albert Bailey.

Albert Bailey.

Q: To me the Earth & Stone lyrics are pretty harsh to say the least, and if you, at that time especially, would be too outspoken, you would possibly have to pay the consequences for it. But you never felt that uneasy, that you were on your way to become a target for your view of the situation? Albert: (Chuckles) Well, I can just answer that part. You see, we were in the heart of the heart - in the heart of it. But if you notice in our lyrics, we didn't become personal. You hear the point (chuckles)? The point where a person would directly point at us and say well, then we are representing that party or that party. We were just speaking generally for mankind, regardless of what party you had. And as I said, we were messengers, trying to forewarn these young men who were tools for the politicians. Our job was basically to forewarn them. We didn't really scared, we never have no fear at all! No fear that we would be attacked by any politicial party, because we didn't really identify ourselves as any support for a party. Q: No one ran into trouble. Clifton: No, not at all. I think we had one song that Jo Jo - I think he was scared to put it out, and that was a song... Albert, you remember a song that the Diamonds did something on that riddim too? Albert: Yeah, 'Johnny Was A Badman'. You know (chuckles)? Clifton: Yeah! Albert: Ah, you know that song! Yeah, until now Jo Jo haven't released it. Clifton: Yeah, I have never heard it. Albert: But that song was a powerful song, yunno. And that was a warning, talking about bad men, that Johnny was a badman whe just sling his gun and one night Johnny got cut down... I don't remember all of the lyrics, but it end up one night that Johnny was cut down. But the whole point of those lyrics was, again, to forewarn young men. Just like the wild wild west, you remember the wild wild west where a guy would sling his gun and make a name. And once you make a name then every guy want to challenge you. So you have a name for a little while and then, y'know, after a while they're history, after another guy challenge you and you're killed. So at the time we were trying to put forth that young men would realise that Johnny got bad and him sling his gun an' everybody know Johnny, but after a while one night Johnny finally came to his fate. It was 'Johnny Was A Badman', or 'Johnny Sling His Gun'. We had that song on a dub. He gave us on a dub, and we had that dub but then we lend them out and then they disappeared, man. As Clifton said, maybe Jo Jo was afraid to put it out. Clifton: Yeah, I think he was scared.

Q: Speaking of dubplates and unreleased material from your most fruitful Channel One period, apart from the steady stream of 45s Jo Jo put out, do you recall what remained in the can? Albert: We did some songs for Jo Jo at Channel One that we know was some powerful hit songs. Even when we started the second album, we started the second album which we did three tracks on that album, and I know those three songs were three powerful songs, riddimwise, lyrics-wise, and vocal - everyt'ing was classic. And even the same song that he released later - I don't know how long he released it, this song 'Give Me (What Is Mine)', all those songs we did, Jo Jo sit down on those songs. Those songs were some powerful hit songs. Yeah, even when we did over this song, we did this song before Dennis Brown for Jo Jo, Channel One, 'Ain't That Loving You'. And Jo Jo sit down on all them songs. We frightened when we hear Dennis Brown did it for Joe Gibbs and it became a hit, you remember, Clifton? Clifton: Mmm. Albert: We did those songs, man, and the voice real cris', riddim an' everyt'ing was great. I don't know, but he held us back, man. Clifton: Yeah, we did a song there that never been released, you jus' mentioned those three songs that being on the album. Yeh, he never released none of those songs! Albert: No! I heard one a dem one night at a dance, on dubplate. Yeah, as far as I remember. Clifton: And those were good songs! Albert: Oh yes, man, every song we made inna dem days could be a hit, if they could get promoted. But as I said, our producer didn't give us the kinda promotion... Earth & Stone jus' literally sell themselves. Clifton: Right, right. That's what it was. Albert: Without any promotion.

Albert Bailey.

Q: So you basically feel that Jo Jo didn't fulfill his part in promoting the group the right and proper way. Clifton: Of course, yeah. Albert: Yeah, we know for certain that we were the unfortunate group who had the talent, had the ability, lyrical-wise, vocal-wise, and somehow didn't get the break, the promotion that we did deserve. Q: Were you signed up by Jo Jo to even take care of management regarding live shows at the local theaters and shows in general, or how did it look like? Albert: That may be one of our setbacks too, that we didn't have a manager. At the time we were thinkin' about this guy who was the manager of the Diamonds. But it didn't get off the ground. Q: Who was that, Tommy Cowan? Albert: No, it wasn't Tommy Cowan. You remember that guy, Clifton? Clifton: Yeah, but I don't remember his name now though. Albert: No, but he was deh 'pon the scene in those times, we were thinkin' about that same guy. But things didn't get off the ground. We were looking overseas to see if we could find a good manager, and even when that LP ('Kool Roots') was released, they could've done a lot of things whereby we could have toured at the time. Clifton: Yeah, we promote ourselves, man, the songs promote themselves.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)