Q: What about performances? Clifton: Quite a few, yeah. We did quite a few live concerts, quite a few. We did a few, Bertie, right? Albert: Yes man, we did quite a few. We did shows with all Dennis Brown, Jacob Miller... Clifton: Delroy Wilson. Albert: Couple of big shows, man, with big name artists too. Clifton: Gregory Isaacs. Albert: Gregory Isaacs. On Easter Monday morning, man, we did a show at the Carib Theatre, the band was put together by Clancy (Eccles), and all when the show do finish, bredda, they owe us so much money to kick you to (unaudible) (laughs). And we went down on stage and bust up the show, a so the Jamaicans tell we, yunno. When the show finish the promoter shake off we hand an' we walk out an' feel nice seh well, then we couldn't believe that we could be so loved. It was jam-packed, one of Kingston's biggest theaters. Carib, that was the most famous theatre in Jamaica. Clifton: At that time. Albert: When you do a show in the Carib Theatre you know seh you have reached somewhere there. Yeah. At the Ward Theatre which we did, we did a show at the Ward Theatre one night, it was the two biggest theaters that every singer wish to do shows in those theaters.

Carib Theatre.

Ward Theatre.

Q: What about competition at the Channel One stable? It was generally good vibes or a tight atmosphere between the acts at the time? There's even a mix up, an old myth by now, that the 'other' Channel One duo Hell & Fire is mistakenly another 'version' of Earth & Stone. When you supposedly changed lead singing, then you were known as 'Hell & Fire', at least according to those rumours! Clifton: No, that's a separate group. Q: Yes indeed, it is. I believe Hell & Fire was created by one Lunsford Simpson and a harmony singer, they recorded for Linval Thompson, GG's, Channel One and High Note among others. Clifton: Yeah, you remember them, Bertie, right? Albert: You know, Hell & Fire, these guys sing a song 'bout 'Things and Time will tell'? Q: That's the Wailing Souls ('Things & Time'). Clifton: No, that's Wailing Soul. Q: Hell & Fire did tracks like 'Show Us the Way' and 'Pointless Killing' for Channel One. Albert: Those groups came after, long after we. I have no real knowledge of Hell & Fire. Clifton: I used to see them at the studio there. Albert: Mmm? Clifton: Yeah! Albert: I don't remember that group, Hell & Fire, at all. Clifton: I think it was two guys. Yeah, I think it was two of them. Albert: (Chuckles) I don't even remember, yunno. Maybe I saw them there, yeah, but I don't remember the group at all.

Q: Dennis Brown did give you some good encouragment at the time, didn't he? Albert: Oh yes, Dennis Brown was a guy, yunno... D. Brown look at me personally and say, "Bwoy, Earth & Stone, the man them haaard, yunno!" It really reach Earth & Stone 'cause he expressed that personally. Clifton: Mmm. Albert: We did a stage show with Dennis Brown one night, you remember, at the Ward Theatre? Clifton: Right. Albert: Yeah! Clifton: He used to be at Coxson's in the early days, remember? Albert: Yeah, yeah. Clifton: I mean, we used to talk to him an' t'ing like that, in the early days of Coxson, borrow a guitar an' t'ing like that. In the days when man used to carry his guitar to the studio... Albert: (Chuckles)

Albert Bailey.

Clifton Howell.

Q: Was the group under contract for Jo Jo or you could freelance without trouble? Because there came quite a few Earth & Stone 45s for people like Ossie Hibbert, Winston Riley and his late brother Buster Riley, you had something for a guy called Clint Wright. No, those two for Wright came out as The Officials, sorry. One tune titled 'Happy Man', the other called 'Music Music'. Albert: (Laughs) Clifton? Clifton: Yes! Albert: You know the songs we did with Toddy that came out as the Officials, yunno! Yeah (laughs)! Clifton: Oh, that's what it came out as (laughs)? Albert: For the man dem whe fight and get gunned down. Clifton: Yeah, last week we were talking 'bout the same guy, you remember? Albert: Yeah, yeah. But you know those songs, brethren? Clifton: We only harmonized on, what, a couple of those songs, right? Albert: Yeah, two of them, we just harmonized for Toddy. But at the time Toddy was a part of the group now, but it came out as The Officials. Clifton: Ahhh. Q: What year was this, when did you cut these for Wright? Albert: These songs maybe about '73, yunno. Yeah, was about '73, going into '74. Q: 'Happy Man' and 'Music Music'. Albert: (Chuckles) 'Music Music', it was two songs on one 45, right? Q: Possibly, yes. Clifton: Back and front. Albert: Two songs on one 45. Right, we used to call him 'Boss' Wright. What was his name, 'Clint' Wright? Yeah, that man deh, gunmen killed him, man. He stopped at the gas station to buy gas for his car, and they held him up and he put up resistance and they shot him, man. Killed him. I remember that man. Wow (chuckles). Our music have a lot of history, man.

Q: What about the connection to Ossie Hibbert? You did 'Wicked A Fe Dress Back' for him. Albert: Yep. Clifton: Yeah. Well, that song too was about an evening what happened to me, right, Albert? Albert: Right. Yeah, we just get the riddim, yunno, ca' we got the riddim for it. Clifton: Yeah, I can't really remember in detail what brought that inspiration forward. Albert: You know, I was the one who started a feel of making the song, 'Wicked A Fe Dress Back'. And so when we got the riddim, me say: "Lemme try this song on the riddim". And so we eventually made some changes to it in order to pick that riddim. But it was a song that we already had that we just eventually converted to that riddim. Q: And that rhythm was an old Studio One chestnut named 'Please Be True' (the late Alexander Henry), updated by Hibbert. Clifton: Yeah, it's on the 'Please Be True' riddim, yes. Albert: That's the riddim of it, yeah. Q: What became of the tune, it must at least have become a minor hit? Albert: It was a hit, man. The song was a hit, but... Clifton: I mean, it still mash up the dancehall! Up to a couple of weeks ago the guys was still playing it in a party over here, and the thing sound fresh and nice, man, like it's just recorded. Fresh same way. Q: I think Ronnie Davis had a nice cut on the same rhythm, 'No Weak Heart', which you might remember? Clifton: Yeah. I think I heard him on the same riddim, yeah.

Q: And speaking of Ronnie, he and his co-producer at the time, Pat Scabba, they had a label called On Top. Albert, you mentioned doing that song, 'Black Magic Woman', and I believe they reissued this Earth & Stone cut a couple of years ago. I don't know if there was any connection to them before? Albert: We are the producer of that song. We went into the studio, rent it, we paid our money for the musicians to lay the track. I was the one who played the bassline on that song. But again, we didn't really have certain knowledge of the marketing. And so we did press a few hundred copies, but because we didn't have any marketing knowledge or to finance this, things did kinda come down to a halt, you understan'. We didn't die for hunger, it's not the money we have, but the lack of exposure. We're the producers, but it was basically useless. And now we see how it end up; other people making money off of it and we are not. Clifton: And it was produced by us as you were saying. Albert: You know (chuckles). We had another song we produced for ourselves, a song named 'Slave Driver'. Have you ever heard of that?

Q: Yep. It was put out in the UK on the Cha Cha label. Albert: And you know what, I remember, yunno, how the song reach out there. You know, we had the stamper to start press it and we didn't. But then I remember though that the disco that we did for Cha Cha, one of the songs and the other song - you remember the two songs we did on a disco for Cha Cha? Clifton: Mmm. Albert: Man, I just remember now that it was one of the songs. Yeah. Cha Cha didn't even tell - Jo Jo's lickle down-payments didn't turn back. Clifton: Right. Q: Who was this guy again, Cha Cha? Albert: Well, I must be honest, brethren, we only know him as 'Cha Cha'.

Albert Bailey.

Q: OK (chuckles). Albert: We didn't know him personally, we only met him twice. But I guess inexperience have a lot to do with it, y'know. Ca' we spend our money to record the songs, and give it to this guy to distribute it in England first. And we didn't take any real information based on anything other than Cha Cha label and the lickle down-payments that he gave us. We didn't have any documents signed, we were so naive (chuckles). Clifton: Yep, we were. Albert: Yeah, we're so naive, man, and these guys took advantage. Q: A common story. In popular music overall, these dirty rip-offs. You will always get back to that when telling musical stories somehow. Clifton: Yeah, well, that was the main reason why we start recording for ourselves. One of the main reasons. Q: And you set up the Rockstone label. Clifton: Right. Albert: (Chuckles) Rockstone is our original label that, yunno, Clifton. It was our original, official label. As Earth & Stone, our label was the Rockstone label. I just see that we had plans, yunno, we just had to break away from these pirates, man. You know, from these guys, 'cause these guys wasn't treating us the way we believed we should be treated, man. These guys was all about themselves, right. But let's blame ourselves in the sense that we didn't come to the knowledge that we have now, first we should've found out how the marketing work. We just believed that - bam! - record, press this song, and people buy it, y'know. We didn't look into the international, how big the market was. We just see the market as Jamaican. That was where we fell short. Q: So you never got the opportunity to do shows overseas? Albert: No. Clifton: But they attempted to. At one point they attempted to give us a show in England. But it never matured. Albert: You see, we should've gone on many tours, brethren, but as I said these guys didn't want Earth & Stone to do certain things, and it's just clear. And if you get a chance to understand how certain things work you realise how much people knew the group, then it a go expose certain things and then you make certain demand and if people can keep you in the dark then they have the upper hand, and I believe that is what, the strategy that they had to get rid of Earth & Stone.

Q: What about this album now, was that something Hibbert compiled behind your back, the 'Back To Africa' combination album with Phillip Frazer? Albert: Well, they didn't really call them album in those times, they was puttin' it out as discomix, yunno. Like one side you have the song and the riddim, and the other side you have the dub of the riddim. Ca' we did a song for him, actually quite a few. We did 'Sweet Sweet Africa', 'Migrate'/'Can't Stand This Life of Living', that one we did for Ossie... Clifton: 'Wicked A Fe Dress Back'. Albert: Yeah, we did 'Wicked A Fe Dress Back' for Ossie, plus we did background song on a riddim for... wha' the guy's name, man? He was on the British charts, 'OK Fred'.

Q: Errol Dunkley. Clifton: Yes, Errol Dunkley. Albert: Yeah! And that song mash down the place, man. And all them songs, we no get no money. Clifton: That was a big hit! Albert: Big hit, man. Q: Even a pop hit at the time ('79). Albert: Yeah, yeah, it was a big hit. We were just one of the groups, my brother, who had the talent, the ability, but didn't get the rewards. No reward, man.

Errol Dunkley.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)