Q: You did some one-off tunes for Winston Riley's brother Buster, 'She Want It' and 'Raindrops'. Albert: Yes, and 'Ain't That Loving You'. 'Raindrops' too? Clifton: And the Heptones song there, Heptones and John Holt... Albert: Leroy Sibbles and John Holt did do a thing... Oh, God... da-da-da-da... da song deh, man? 'Build Our Dreams Together'! Clifton: Right. Albert: Yeah, 'Let's Build Our Dreams Together'. It's a two-part song, you lead, me lead a part of the song. Yeah, well, he release it on an LP, 'Earth & Stone Meets Phillip Frazer', yunno (chuckles). Clifton: Yes.

Q: And no payment for that whatsoever? Clifton: None at all. Not even a dime, man. Albert: None at all. Not even one red cent there (chuckles). You just gotta laugh at these things, brethren. You hear we laugh, but these are painful situations. Q: Of course. Albert: All we've been through... I can tell you, I and Clifton, we made so much sacrifice for this music, man. We rehearsed. Rehearsing was like our daily job, man. Nine hours, ten hours a day. No joke. Clifton: Twice a day sometime. Albert: Twice a day, sometimes three times a day without break. Something to eat and come back and it's just music, y'understan'. Q: You both kept your daily jobs in the Channel One period, or you focused on the music, fully? Clifton: At one point when we were recording often, then... not really 'quit' the job but I was like doing side-jobs an' t'ing like that. Albert: And as for me now that was basically everyt'ing, 'cause everything was just music now after a while. Every dollar that we get was basically from music in the sense - even though when I say 'dollars' don't think it was any big money (laughs). These money that we got, man, was just chicken feed compared to what these guys were making. Nevertheless, of all the producers we've recorded for, we still feel that if we should rate them, I would rate Channel One's producers the best. 'Cause he was a man we could've found and we could approach him with a situation and he would try to assist. That was one of the best things with Jo Jo.

Q: The first album now, I don't even know if 'Kool Roots' came out prior to 'Back To Africa' or vice versa, but 'Kool Roots' was pretty unique or unusual at the time in the sense that it was released as a double album. A dub version was included in the package. Was that your idea, something you had in discussion, or they put that together? Clifton: That was the first album. Albert: I think that double thing was basically Cha Cha's idea. Q: And it was never released in Jamaica as far as I know. Albert: Never released in Jamaica. All of those songs right now on 'Kool Roots', apart from 'In Time To Come', 'Jah Will Cut You Down'/'Jailhouse Set Me Free', 'Three Wise Men', those are the only three songs that release in Jamaica. Until this day Jo Jo... Maybe now, I don't know what he is doing because they released it on another album. Clifton: It's on CD now. Albert: Yeah, on a CD now, but he held all of those songs in Jamaica, man.

Q: How did you feel when the album turned up on a British CD on the Pressure Sounds label? What was your involvement in that, any notice from either Jo Jo or the company beforehand? Clifton: No notice, and we got just a little compensation. Well, I'm still waiting for mine (chuckles). Q: (Laughs) Clifton: Yeah man, but with no knowledge, we didn't know about it. Albert: Well, I guess it was Clifton who discovered it. Clifton: Yep. Albert: We know it was on 45s but we didn't know they re-released it on CD. Clifton: We know it on the vinyl, but we didn't know that they released it on a CD.

Q: But did it feel good somehow, even if they didn't give what they 'owed' you so to speak, did it feel good that this long-unavailable work was reaching a new audience? Albert: Yes! We're glad to see that in a sense. We realise that... You see, based on our knowledge of this music, yunno, we know that this music was not just for one generation. This music is for every generation that comes to listen to this music. It's not a music that is gonna fade away, that's for sure. So that shows us that, yes, there's a market out there for us. If there wasn't a market then they wouldn't choose to put it on CD. So people was still buying it. Q: Have you both even realised what sort of impact Earth & Stone made over the years from what people have told you, what you've read and heard? Clifton: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we realise that we had a pretty good audience out there because of the feedback. We realised. I've heard people compared us with Bob Marley an' t'ing like that. Q: I mean, I hear and read people talking about the 'Kool Roots' album as being some sort of masterpiece from that era, even. That's quite an 'accomplishment' if you look at it that way. Albert: Yeah. You see, I've heard that comment. And I can't forget something on the internet that featured a couple of top songs where Earth & Stone was featured. So we know that people regarded the group very highly. Our producer didn't really, as I said, he held us back. He blocked our future. And we didn't have the finances. We tried other producers, like Joe Gibbs.

Q: Songs like 'Why Girl' and 'Ring Craft'. Albert: 'Why Girl' and 'Ring Craft' we did for Joe Gibbs. But when at these studios, y'know, I felt that the vibes was really at Channel One, and we regard that as where we got the break from. And one of the big problems too, we kinda put a lot of confidence in Jo Jo, in Channel One, and we were waiting believing that we would get our break from Channel One, and that was one of the things that held us back. We sit back and was waiting, because, honestly, if we had a push forward and break away, things would be different, man. Q: You stayed for too long. Clifton: Yes! Albert: Yeah. Q: There was a label in America called Glory Gold, you had tracks like 'Jolly Man' and 'Midnight Woman' on it. Clifton: Oh! Oh, Albert, those are the two songs that I did for your friend there. Albert: OK. Clifton: Yeah, I did them without Albert for... Albert: Colin. Clifton: For Colin, yeah. I did those two songs solo. Q: For a guy called Colin Sampson? Albert: Colin Sampson, that was his name. Colin Sampson, yeah. Clifton: Right. Albert: He was the cousin of Cha Cha, yunno. Clifton: So I did those two songs for him. But still waiting to get paid... Q: (Laughs) Clifton: (Chuckles) Q: I think I've heard that before! Clifton: Right (laughs).

Q: There was even a tune called 'Repatriation Is A Must', but it wasn't released as Earth & Stone, it came out as by the Heptones, for Channel One. Albert: Maybe some mix-up with the name. I don't remember that song, 'Repatriation Is A Must', no. Maybe somebody tried to use the name. Because, as I said, there's songs with Earth & Stone which we know are not our songs, but they're even using the name still. Q: Speaking about Rastafari, throwing this question out to both of you, what was your connection to the faith at the time? Clifton: Well, no affiliation. I mean, I never think about being a Rastaman. But for some reason maybe some of the songs, they might come out that way. But I never really influenced by the idea. Albert: (Chuckles): Well, as for me, right... You see, we were young men who were focused, we felt positive. You know, we kept positive. If you notice our lyrics we didn't sing about any of these negative things. Some of these x-rated type of lyrics, we didn't go in that channel. We kept it positive along the same line among most men who are Rasta would be thinking. People assumed that Earth & Stone maybe dreadlocks of which none of us never wore dreadlocks (chuckles). But we were positive, we were real rootsmen, yunno. We were conscious of Africa, we never forget that. Conscious of our African heritage, we were very conscious of a time to come when we would be... Well, as for me, and I know Clifton share the same feel, we used to see ourselves, the whole repatriation idea of going back to our roots, these used to be things that influence us. And if you noticed songs like 'Come With Me To the Holy Land of Home (Where There'd Never Be Any War)', we are thinkin' of the whole thing of going back to our roots. So lyrics like those, people assumed that we were Rastamen as they called it in those days, or dreadlocks, but basically we never wore dreads, none of us.

Q: What became of the group in the change between the seventies and eighties and the first two albums, what happened then? Not many heard from Earth & Stone in that period, say the early eighties. The group vanished more or less from the scene, what happened then is not that known, if known at all. Albert: Yes. Now, I became a convert, a Christian, and I had moved on in the church to the point that I became a pastor. In 1987 I became a pastor. Clifton was now living here in the United States, I was still at home, a pastor in the church. So things kind of just broke down from there. But my life had made that change. I was still doing a lot of singin' in church. Even until this day, man, I'm still singin'. I never stopped sing, that's a part of me. Go ahead, Clifton. Clifton: Yes man. Well, for me, I migrated, what, in '85. I came to the States. By this time I was a plumber already, I was like steady in plumbing for fifteen years already. So I came here - I went right into plumbing. But the music never leave my mind at all. And I'm still writing. Right now I've got a lot of new lyrics, music that really put together, just waiting to be recorded. So I'm looking at least for somebody like a promoter, a good promoter, a guy who I can do business with an' t'ing like that to do this music. And I think I write better lyrics than before now. So I still don't gone away from it. I mean, I think I'm even deeper into it now than before. But, as I said, I'm doing plumbing right now. Q: I'm pretty sure that, when the group vanished in the early eighties, parts of the industry, as well as your audience, felt a big loss. I suppose you felt - and it's obvious - a bit disillusioned and didn't want to spend more energy on something that didn't 'pay off'. That was basically the situation, a disillusioned group, 'lets split and see if we can reform later on'? It never happened, but that's how it was? Clifton: Well, I always think that, even though Albert is not singin' in the group no more, the group would go on. Because there's another guy that is here in the States who did a couple of good songs with us in the earlier days. We used to do rehearsals an' t'ing like that for a few years. But I did a couple of demos an' t'ing like that. But no real serious recording. Because I've been holding back from that time, from Albert had left, holding back saying that 'I'm waiting to find the right person'. And I'm still holding back. But I never stopped recording - I mean I never stopped writing. I've got dozens of songs here that I know they could make a hit. But I still don't run into the right person yet where I can say OK, lets go and do some business. So I still got a voice for it and I still got good lyrics. So I'm just waiting for that break right now. It never leave my mind. Q: And in your case, Albert, I suppose you won't consider singing secular songs again, would you? Albert: I personally, y'know, I must tell you right now, I'm still singin'. But as you said, the secular music now, to me, is of the past. And I don't really see myself going back to secular music. I still have been encouraged by a lot of people to do some serious gospel music. A lot of people is encouraging me and I recorded one song on an album, a gospel song. But I believe I'm going back in the studio right now to record some gospel. You know, that's me. Q: What about the unreleased Earth & Stone material that I know exists, things you have on mastertape laying about down in Jamaica? Albert: Yes, the unreleased material you are talking about is the same 'Black Magic Woman' and 'Slave Driver'. We have those tapes, because those are our personal productions. And if somebody wants to do a t'ing, we would do a t'ing, right, Clifton? Clifton: Mmm.

Earth & Stone recording at Channel One.

Q: Where was the sessions? Albert: 'Slave Driver' was done by Channel One studio while 'Black Magic Woman' was done by Harry J studio. While we laid the riddim tracks at a new studio at the time and then we went and do the voicing at Harry J. Q: So that's about it, two tracks laying about in JA? Albert: Right. Yeah, we have them eight-track tapes. The tape is just kinda dusty but I believe the mastertape where those songs were mixed down on, they got kinda mislaid. We have to get them from the eight-track. Q: So, hopefully, you will link up with the right person to put them out soon. Albert: Hopefully. Hopefully we'd meet somebody, if Clifton and me come across somebody 'cause I have the tape here, right, so it wouldn't be a problem. Q: When you look back with some kind of perspective on 'your' era, the 1970s, and if you put it beside the music being made today, what is your reflections? How do you feel about it, what was made then and what is being made now? Clifton: Well, for me, it's a different generation. So they have their own style. But I think there's no message in the music no more. To me it's really like just a jump-up thing now. Youths are having fun, that's all there is. But as far as sitting down and listening to lyrics an' t'ing like that again, I don't think that that is going on no more. I don't think people sit and listen to lyrics as they used to. That's how I think about it. Q: They don't get motivated by lyrics in the same way? Clifton: Right. Albert: And as for me, the music of that time was more professional. If you look at how the music industry turned, they are saying some things in the music right now based on - we never used to hear that type of thing in the music. In other words, in my era musician played skillfully from the heart. In this era, any guy can go on a computer an' just jam up some things, and they call that 'music'...

Albert Bailey & Clifton Howell.

So much has changed from the time Earth & Stone hit the charts in Jamaica and elsewhere, but when they did, the group provided us with some of the most solid roots reggae music ever committed to wax. It is music that will be played repeatedly in oldies dances and on the airwaves where any reggae selection of note is drawn. It is that solid, it is that timeless, it has such a high quality that you can't get around it. Songs like 'In Time To Come' is like a musical fist in your face, or should I say ears, from the first time you hear it. Channel One ruled at the time, and Earth & Stone benefitted - as well as the Hookims on their side, through sharp songwriting and the typically energetic vocals that characterized the duo - from the combination of the crisp studio sound that was Channel One and the strong rhythms by the Revolutionaries. 'Kool Roots' was the perfect testament of the enduring legacy of this group. Hopefully there are new things to come, and just as hopefully, a collection of long unavailable singles bearing that unmistakable Earth & Stone sound. 7" single information courtesy Roots Knotty Roots. Earth & Stone's Website : www.myspace.com/koolroots (Look for an extended, printed version of this interview to be published soon.)

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)