Q: So tell me about the first album, how it came together, piece by piece. The sequence there is a bit confusing. First I didn't know that 'Prayer of Peace', the LP, is basically the 'Color Barrier' album, and you had switched the song sequence, changed a few tracks between them? A: Different things were happening then. I put out an album and then somebody wanted the album, but they want me to change up the format. And all of that started from there. Ca' you remember the album with the three silhouettes on it, that's the one you're saying, the 'Prayer of Peace', the one you have or know of? Q: Right. A: OK then. So after we did that album - I did it on my own, even with you see the writing is my own and other writing and all of that. Then came other interest into the album, who needed a few tracks from that album to make up another album, which was called 'Color Barrier'. I think it was Babsy Grange was the person at the time who was taking care of my management here, she had some deal with someone who would like the album, but they would like to omit some songs and add some other songs. So, that's where the mix-up came from. Q: But the rhythms and structures on the 'Color Barrier' album, it's a very diverse record. It certainly isn't recorded in one or two sessions, so it automatically avoids a lot of sameness in the process, it hasn't that 'compact' vibe about it. A: No, it's not a one-year, oh no. Q: It's a wide range of styles and feel throughout. It's not only your own rhythms, I recognise for example 'Stand Up Strong', I think Leroy Smart had a cut on that one? A: Oh, yes. No, it's not a Smart, I think that's a Burning Spear. Q: Possibly, yes. That fast beat there. A: That's a Burning Spear. Q: Did you exchange riddims with Robbie at the time? A: No, that took place at Channel One. Q: You went down there to do some stuff. A: Oh yeah, a lot of my work. You see, what happened (hawking), is not a lot of my work was done in Canada a hundred percent. Like some of the songs that we bring up drum and bass from Jamaica, and then do overdubs here. 'Cause 'Prayer of Peace' and 'Stand Up Strong', those two songs were recorded here a hundred percent. Nothing was overdubbed or mixed in Jamaica too tough, it was done right here. However, songs like 'Color Barrier', 'Metro Pigs', these riddims came from a Channel One also. 'Time of Decision', 'Time of Decision' also a Channel One. 'Metro Pigs' riddim, no. Not 'Metro Pigs', 'Metro Pigs' was recorded in Channel One, but not for Channel One. Ossie Hibbert - if you know that name? Q: Keyboardist, engineer. A: Yeah, the engineer from Channel One. He and I grew up also, we know one another from we were boys in Trench Town. He asked me to do a song for him, and in return he mixed a few. I got two riddims from him also, 'Time of Decision' riddim was one of them I think. I voiced them here when I came back to Canada. 'African Roots' was done on the 'Color Barrier' session, and 'Free For All', 'Disaster', all of those were done on the same session, 'Color Barrier', at the studio, with 'Chinna', Earl Smith, and the rest of the musicians, (Augustus) Pablo and all of them. So, yes, that's how much as I can...

Q: Remember, yea. But the 'Prayer of Peace' album, what year did it come out? A: As 'Prayer of Peace' it was released early, man. It was released in the early seventies, like about '75, '76. Yes. The title song was out in '74. Q: What was the reception for the album at that time, in Canada first and foremost? A: (Coughs) It was extremely good. It was one of those songs that even religious - I remember one guy, he was tellin' me that he cannot play reggae songs on Sundays, but he could play that song ('Prayer of Peace')! I remember he stepped up after a show and he came up to me and said he loved it. That song really opened a lot of doors for me in the early days. 'Cause no one here even believe until today that the song is recorded in Canada. Everybody say that it's a Jamaican recording. The song did well. Q: But the debut LP was out in the mid seventies, where most of the 'Color Barrier' material comes from. A: I would say - it could be about '75 or '76, the album came out. Q: How many tracks made up the 'Color Barrier' album from the original, 'Prayer of Peace', and what was left out? A: It's a shame I didn't have the track listing here with me, I should know that off-hand but I don't. Q: Half? A: Could be a little more than that. (Hawking) Sorry, because remember, that was the album and then they took from this and omit as I explained earlier on, to build up this 'Color Barrier' album. Could be four or five of the tracks left over there. Q: (Chuckles) There's another album I don't know much about, I think it was released around that time too, but who knows, it might be the same album again... A: Makossa? Q: Yeah, I was gonna ask you how the album ended up on Makossa, which was mainly an African music label from New York, even though they released things by the Meditations and Jimmy Riley. A: So strange, man. Many strange things happened.

Q: I'm not quite sure, if it was your own label, but did the first pressing of 'Color Barrier' come out on the Flames label? A: 'Color Barrier'? Q: Yes. A: Flames label, you mean the single? Q: No, the first pressing, the very first issue of the album, as 'Color Barrier'. A: No, that was nutten to do with Flames. I had my song out when I went to New York and I met Winston Jones, that's him, he had the Flames label. And he was telling me that he had somebody in England that would be interested in that song. So, if I would allow him to send it to that person. And I turned around and then it was a bit of shaky business there, and the next thing I know it was like the song was 'his' and all the rest of it. However, he did put it on the Flames label here, afterwards. It wasn't originally on the Flames label. Q: So what about the 'Face To Face' album, that was the one I was about to ask you about, it must've been out around this time as well? A: Right. The 'Face To Face' album now was the album that we put together after that (chuckles), which didn't have any songs from the other album though. It did have - one of the songs that... What was happening here then is 'Gipsy Girl', that was one of the real strong songs for me here. And it was happening, 'Gipsy', and we had other tracks now that we figure, then, if 'Gipsy' is happening so good, why not put the rest of them together and call it one big album, 'Face To Face'. And I had 'Happiness', the song, and 'Poor Man Story', 'Money Barrier', 'Round the Clock', Face To Face', 'Give Me Your Love', 'Hard To Live Without Collie'. So, that's how that one came by because of that song, 'Gipsy Girl'.

Q: I've never heard that song, unfortunately. I heard it sold a lot though. A: 'Gipsy'? Oh, gee. It was recorded here in Canada. At that time they were experimenting with the Fairlight computer, it was just a taste of the computer in North America then. And I think I was one of the first persons to record a reggae on the Fairlight computer. And it came out and it did so good that until today it is one of my most requested songs on stage here in North America. Q: What about all this mix-up with the other guy from the Black Traps group, the 'other' Leroy Brown, who did tracks like 'Blood A Go Run', 'Give Thanks', and so on? A: No, I've never... It's a bit of mix-up, yes. And I was tryin' to get in touch with him when I was there in Jamaica, but for some reason - the last time I was in Jamaica, because it's as simple as if, if that's the name he's been workin' with, it not gonna benefit either of us until we make some form of change in the name, right. Q: Right. A: 'Cause I did a whole lot more songs than him, and it's not fair to both of us then, to put it that way. Because people get mixed up sometimes, they would ask him to sing one of my songs. It's not really good. Q: And vice versa, many tend to believe - and what can they do - that it's actually you who sing his songs, 'Give Thanks' for example, for Carlton Patterson. A: Right. And make it clear for other people that it's not, and I don't know the guy, I don't know of him or enough to talk about him. So, one of these days... Because if you go on the web and search for Leroy Brown, you would get a lot of other persons with that name, maybe it's three or four of them. That's the name they have, that's the name they're using. It's like what one person said to me, "Don't go and make any changes, 'cause all you have is your name if you're singin', they will have to change their name".

Q: Back to your 'Color Barrier' album, again. That album became a cult album shortly after it came out, and that cult has grown steadily over the past 23 years or so. Initially it came out on a small, independent label. I cannot imagine it had the circulation it deserved, then. The distribution was pretty limited compared to now, but today it's a totally different thing having it on CD as we speak, with so many more channels to reach out with it. Let me know a little about how it got promoted and channeled in those days. A: It came out and - I could've made other deals with other people, but at that time, to me, making those type of deals was like giving away my stuff. And I wasn't ready to give it away. I said I'm in it for the long hauls. I held on to my stuff and sold them when I go and do a show. I sell them, one-one, two-two, wherever I sell I'm OK with that. And in those days - that's also one of the reasons why I even switched too, because the cultural type of singin' wasn't really happenin', you couldn't make enough money doing it with that. So, making the switch to singin', like, songs like 'Gipsy' and other songs, that was part of the reason for that too. Q: What do you think that album gives a listener in this time? Do you think it still has a connection between that time when it was put out, and now when reggae music has changed enormously from how it was back in the early eighties, where is the place in today's market for an album like this, the whole content, and what does it mean to you now? Tough questions, perhaps. A: No, it means that I was ahead, it's how it make me think. 'Cause what I was singin' about then is happening now. That's the kinda feeling I get from it, that's what I'm thinkin'. Or, not even biggin' up myself thinkin' 'ahead', the other way to look at it is that, what was happening then is happenin' now. Q: There's that diversity about it as well. Many reggae albums tend to have the same kind of sequence, but this one is different. The sound is very varied, you don't easily get bored here with certain aspects of the recordings. A: Right. Well, as some people say, I work with some artists sometime and they say oh, he work with some artists and all of their songs sound the same way, this is the way to do it, this is what we're talkin' about. I look at it like, just like a band singer, which I consider myself one of them, where I'm comin' from, a band, and where you learn to sing in different range and so on, when I do an album it should have a lot of different ranges on it, different type of writing. Like for now, I have songs like dozen songs written over the years which I haven't recorded yet, I still have them here. So what I do now, I just fit them into different riddim tracks, and they're in business again. Q: The way how you approached recording in the old days compared to now, is it even possible to get back that same organic, fat, full sound as you could in those times? A: Yeah, but it's not easy... Q: I sort of doubt you will ever get close to it, the digital technology filter out the 'dirt' from the music made on analog recordings... A: Yes, that mocky sound that you have to make is what it is. But we're still workin', Willi Williams and I, I don't know if you knew that Willi and I are cousins? Q: Never (chuckles). A: You never heard, eh (chuckles)? Q: Well he never mentioned it anyhow. A: We have a studio together also here, and the analog sound is still present, so a lot of stuff that Willi and I are working on now are coming out of that studio. A lot of his stuff is out of that studio. I did have this project with Sly & Robbie that I'm finishing so he and I can collaborate and get some things happening together, the family. It's like that still. Ca' when we listen to stuff that is out of that studio now it reminds us of the Studio One style. Everybody is running away from... I already set up a digital at my place, I have a digital happening here, but we also have analog for our releases. We are both in partnership.

Willi Williams

Leroy Brown

Q: But there's definitely the need to preserve the older approach to recording, which seems to be lost in todays technology. A: Yeah. What was happening then, all the musicians sit in the studio and record together. It's a feel everybody had. With the digital recording now, most of it is... the drum of course is not real, and you don't get to feel everybody in the session. A guy come in and overdub and another guy overdubbin' another part and all of that. It's a different thing now, the computer technology. So, that's what I think anyway. Now you don't have to mic the instruments the way you used to. Q: I wonder if you'd ask a fresh engineer to mic the instruments how it used to be, I don't think he's even able to reach that level anymore. A: Yes. Most definitely, no. Most of them are not able to do that, 'cause they weren't taught that way. They weren't exposed to it. But we're tryin' to hold onto that sound, that old sound and I think we're doing a good job in doing it too. The next album should be a collaboration between Willi and myself, then you should be able to hear the old type sound. Ca' we have a lot of drum tracks and we have everything basically, to be honest with you, everything that we used then we have it now, so we can always get busy workin' now on thirty year old riddim tracks. It's like gold to have old riddim tracks from thirty years ago that hasn't been released yet, and we do have those. Q: What about 'Heartache', the Vic Taylor song? A: I'd say something to you about that song, I don't know if you know the origin of that song? It was long after I record that song I met someone in New York, a little before Vic Taylor died, and the guy who was working in a record store in the Bronx, he let me hear the original of that song. He played it for me, and what really happened, and it happened to a lot of songs in the older days, you hear a song from in a foreign country whe you don't know 'bout the song, and you pick up what you know of it and you end up finish writin' the song. You sing it as if it's your song. I think that's what happened with 'Heartache'. That wasn't the title, it wasn't even the name of the song. Vic Taylor was asked many times if he wrote that song, and he said yes. It's his music, so that's how much I can say about it. It's his song, I did hear another version of it and didn't copy his song, as such. I just leave it right there. Q: I remember some years ago, I picked up a 45 on the Record Factory label, this was a digital recut of 'Rulers of Babylon'. A: Oh, my God. Yes. I did record that song, I produced it at Record Factory in Jamaica. And he (Bunny Gemini) told me that for some reason that the first pressing sold so fast he could not believe it. And since then, well, I haven't acheived anything from it, monetary. So I went back for the original one that we did from back in the seventies, on this album. Quite a bit of difference in the recording.

Leroy Brown (Photo: Reggae-blog.com)

Q: Yes, to say the least (chuckles). It's not the same vibe about it, it doesn't have the same spark as the original one. A: Not the same, no. Right. Q: But anyway, when did you link up with Tesfa McDonald, you cut some tracks for him a few years back, didn't you? A: What's his name? Q: Tesfa McDonald. He has the Tesfa label in Jamaica. A: (Silence) Q: I don't know if this happens to be the other Leroy Brown then, 'cause he had released a couple of songs some years back like 'Last Train To Africa' and 'Meet Me At The Corner'. A: No, up until today it's still causing confusion, ca' I don't know... I've never heard of this. Q: There was another one on Tesfa called 'Take My Hand' as well, all credited to your namesake Leroy Brown. A: That's where the big mix-up is, man, and I'm hoping... Q: You need to find him (laughs)! A: Eh? Yeah, I need to find him, because maybe he... maybe he tries to find me too, and yet he hasn't found me. It's just a matter of makin' some difference with the spelling of the name, and then we could make an announcement that people would know that it's a bit of difference here. The other person singin' as Leroy Brown, he's not even singin' reggae so he's not confusing our market at all. I know there's a website with another guitarist or some... another singer somewhere. Yes, it's one of those things that eventually, I hope this year, he and I may be gettin' together and we could solve this. In the meantime I'm just puttin' out songs left, right and center this year, all over the place, so...

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)